Will He Call?: Episode 278

Will He Call?: Episode 278

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Listen to this week's show!

Roundtable: The Elusive Second Date

Well, you went out once. No biggie. But the next step is a second date, and that can be tricky. Did you like her — enough? Is there potential? Do you think he'll call? Whether you're a guy or girl, navigating the second date decision can seem harder than crafting a thesis paper, and the assumptions, fears, hopes and disappointments can at times be too much to bear. Not to mention that not getting a second date can feel like another round of rejection. This week's guests share their opinions on asking for, responding to, evading and turning down a second date.

Culture: Beyond Boundaries

Psychologist Dr. John Townsend knows relationships, and he knows boundaries. But when you’ve been hurt by someone, can you learn to love and trust again? It’s possible, says Dr. Townsend in his book Beyond Boundaries. I sit down with him for a talk on staying sane through the ups, downs, backwards and forwards of choosing to love and live in a healthy way.

Inbox: I Have an STD

She has an STD. Does this limit her dating and marriage options? When she does date, how much about her situation does she need to share, and when? Counselor Cynthia Dervaes has some suggestions.

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  • This was a fantastic show!  There was something important for me to hear in every part, and I really appreciated the honesty and "real-ness" of the guests.  Thank you!

  • The girl with an STD just might be surprised at some other guys. For example, I have no sex drive. I have never really cared about having sex. Such things have never been any type of priority in my life. I know that I am the kind of guy who is extremely hard to find, but we exist. For guys like me, marrying a woman with an STD would not be a problem.

  • Loved the show! Great roundtable and I agree with a lot of what they said

  • Dreamer Guy,

    Now admittedly, I haven't listened to the podcast yet, but your post rather struck me. Unless she was specifically looking for a husband without the sex (as someone wrote Candice recently about - and Candice recommended counseling btw), having a STD doesn't doom someone to a sexless marriage. Since you've posted before about your resolution not to get married, I'm puzzled as to why you desire marriage, just without the sexual intimacy. You sound like you have the gift of celibacy.

  • I tend to prefer straight conversations (over coffee or drinks - preferably the latter, lol) vs an activity or even a full meal.  It's not hard for a conversation to last up to two hours since you have so much to talk about.  Really, the biggest thing on my mind during that time is not to screw things up. (you can substitute other words there too)  One thing that irritates me is when a gal doesn't let the conversation breathe... constantly switching subjects...and suddenly we've run through my topics in 30min!  I'd say i'm about 50/50 on second dates... I've had a lot of really great to good initial ones - never really any bombs.  The times I've ruled someone out (due to a big thing like being a non-Christian) halfway through, I still have a pleasant time.. it's actually a weight off my shoulders.... and I can enjoy the night as I would with anyone else.

    The guys were pretty generous with their time limits.  Standard operating procedure is two-three days... even if I was unsure I'd still maintain some kind of contact,, just to extend things.  If it's over a week forget it.  The best scenario is to set up a second date during your first... I pulled that off having bought concert tickets for the following week - a perfect setup!  

  • Actually Savaire, I do not want to get married. I truly believe that I have the gift of celibacy. However, there are many asexuals who get married and do just fine. I have heard of couples who were engaged and never planned on having sex. But seeing as I am not interested in any sort of physical affection, I think it would be far better for me to keep away from any women that would show any interest in me. Seriously. I don't even like holding hands. I have a clean slate with the ladies, and I want to keep it that way for the rest of my life.

  • I found this line from the roundtable strange: "If a guy can't lead a first date, how can he lead your children?" Please tell me that there are not seriously people out there who equate ability to plan a social activity and carry a conversation with a person's ability to manage a family...

    I think there is very little you can determine about someone during a first date beyond whether you like being around the person and want to see them again (with the exception of obvious red flags). If you are making judgements about someone’s ability to provide, lead or be a good partner, I think you are trying to read too much into what should be an information meet and greet.

  • ...Sorry that comment should read *informal meet and greet.  :)

  • James79 said: "The best scenario is to set up a second date during your first... "

    I actually disagree with this - I always needed 'think it over time', even if I really liked the guy! I wanted to be sure I felt the same way in the morning when I wasn't being dazzled by his presence.  ;)

  • I was just about to say roughly what Kelly said. Being asked for a second date at the end of the first is okay if you want to meet up again, but it would be pretty awkward to have to say no thanks there and then if you didn't. That said, my guy did this and I did want to see him again, so it was fine. And to be honest, I think you can worry too much about doing everything a certain prescribed way. Sometimes it's kinda nice when someone doesn't make all the "right" moves, you know they're not playing games.

  • @JosieJo:

    "And to be honest, I think you can worry too much about doing everything a certain prescribed way."

    Yep -- I think this is something tht freaks a lot of guys out. That feeling like they are going to miss something on the "checklist" and blow their chances with a girl.

  • @Corwin,

    The sentence you found strange ("If a guy can't lead a first date, how can he lead your children?") made me AMEN out loud while I listened to the podcast.

    I wouldn't say that this means I "equate ability to plan a social activity and carry a conversation with ... ability to manage a family."

    It just means that, when a man makes no attempt to lead a date, he demonstrates a passivity that doesn't bode well for the future. It is so so so uncomfortable when a guy asks you out and then proceeds to expect you to make the decisions about what you do, where you go, etc. It seems to demonstrate that, though he mustered up the courage to ask you out, he lacks the follow-through involved in actually planning a date.

    I do not mean that a guy need to have a super elaborate evening planned. I just want to know that he has general plans and sees himself as in charge.

  • KBrannen said: "It is so so so uncomfortable when a guy asks you out and then proceeds to expect you to make the decisions about what you do, where you go, etc. It seems to demonstrate that, though he mustered up the courage to ask you out, he lacks the follow-through involved in actually planning a date."

    YES!  I've only been on two first dates (both of which turned into short dating relationships), and each guy had a specific plan in mind when he asked me out.  It's not like he didn't take my preferences into consideration, but at least he had a plan for when I said yes.  The first guy asked me out again at the end of the first date (which had lasted several hours), and the second guy called me the next day to ask me out a second time.  

    But even though those experiences were positive, I'm currently learning exactly how frustrating it can be when a guy has no plan for the first date he asked me on (but hasn't followed through with), let alone a second one!  Seriously!  We've never met, but a mutual acquaintance managed to set up a phone call.  It was awkward, but not terrible.  When I didn't hear from the guy again for several weeks, I assumed he wasn't interested in continuing the conversation.  I was OK with that.  Then, two weeks ago, he called and asked me out.  I said yes, since I'm trying to give any Christian guy at least one chance,  He said he'd call me "next week" (that would have been last week), and set up a time and place.  I still haven't heard from him.  Grr!  It's frustrating, and now I don't know that I even WANT to meet him since he seems so disinterested in actually meeting me.  So yeah, I want a guy to take the lead and show that he has some solid idea for a date, whether it's a first date or a second or a third.    

  • "[W]hen a man makes no attempt to lead a date, he demonstrates a passivity that doesn't bode well for the future. [...] I do not mean that a guy need to have a super elaborate evening planned. I just want to know that he has general plans and sees himself as in charge."

    Point taken. However, I can see where Corwin is coming from, because I know for a fact that my own dad would count as a counter-example to some extent:

    According to my mom, my dad did not fit the "traditional" mold of a leader back when they were dating. However, she never regretted marrying him; while my dad is still "very introverted" and "not particularly romantic" to this day, my mom still loves him deeply for his strong faith, work ethic, loyalty, and kindness.

    So what's the issue here? I could be wrong, but my guess is that some people might make "a better spouse than a significant other" if their positive traits are not immediately visible / utilizable in the dating context.

  • @KBrannen & MissC1:

    "...when a man makes no attempt to lead a date, he demonstrates a passivity that doesn't bode well for the future."

    I agree that if a guy shows no attempt to actually make the date happen beyond asking you out, then yes it is a problem (though arguably that shows a lack of real interest/motivation more than lack of leadership). However the comments in the podcast were part of a discussion on the guy facilitating and "having a plan" for the conversation, and also creating a good environment for a comfortable conversation. That's why I said that guy's comment was essentially comparing a man's social planning and conversational skills to his ability to parent.

    I'll be completely honest with you, I hate Christian dating, haven't been on a date in well over a year, and have little interest in dating a Christian girl ever again because it often seems like first and second dates are more like a driver's licence exam than a social evening. Did he show ability to take risks by asking me out in person? Nope, he used Facebook -- two demerits. Did he show ability to provide by jumping up to pay for my $3 coffee? Nope, he was in the bathroom when I ordered, so I had to pay -- three demerits. Did he show leadership by picking a venue conducive to conversation? Nope, he took me to a crowded place that he should've known would be too loud to talk deeply -- six demerits...and that's a fail for this dude's godly husband potential.

    Of course I'm exaggerating, but I really have found that the expectations and judgements that are made on Christian first dates are quite extreme. I really don't think you can accurately assess anyone's leadership or provider or parenting potential the first time you go out with them. No one is truly themselves on a first date either due to nerves or trying to be impressive, yet statement like "if he can't lead a first date, he can't lead your children" make it sound like it's totally legit to give guys one high-pressure shot to prove who they are to women.

    "I do not mean that a guy need to have a super elaborate evening planned. I just want to know that he has general plans and sees himself as in charge."

    Here again, if you were going out with a friend you just met you would never say you would want them to be in charge. I'm guessing you would work with them to make the evening great for both of you. Is it not fair for a guy in the same way to see the first date as something that should be mutually decided (especially if he doesn't know you and has little if any idea what activities or restaurants you would like)? For me, this gets back to the whole question of whether a date is a social evening to get to know each other a little or a test for the man to pass...

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